tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post1116815433608498264..comments2024-03-29T05:29:57.536-04:00Comments on The DiploMad 2.0: August 6, 1945DiploMadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02316439950882822419noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-55167755214271515952015-08-11T16:49:54.508-04:002015-08-11T16:49:54.508-04:00How about not invading at all. Destroy their navy ...How about not invading at all. Destroy their navy and air force then blockade them.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05218434053331256206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-88310646037249805862015-08-09T22:00:23.162-04:002015-08-09T22:00:23.162-04:00Another reasonable consequence of NOT dropping the...Another reasonable consequence of NOT dropping the two bombs is that all the Korean peninsula would today be under Korean Communist rule. We only took responsibility for south the 39th parallel because we had the troops and because the Russians hadn't had time to really mobilize towards the East.<br /><br />I once worked for a man who had seen the tail end of Okinawa and was going to Japan. He told me he cried when he heard the news. Fissell makes this point repeatedly in his "Thank God for the Atomic Bomb."<br /><br />He also notes that one prominent critic, John Kenneth Galbraith, spent the war working in the Office of Price Controls in DC. With a US casualty rate even without the invasion of the home islands of 7,000 a WEEK, who at risk would want the war to continue another day.Whitehallnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-33106258426863503712015-08-08T05:58:06.513-04:002015-08-08T05:58:06.513-04:00I am sorry to report that I have become so distrus...I am sorry to report that I have become so distrustful of the United States government, that I am questioning even this ("the dropping of the atomic bomb was justified") now.<br /><br />Let's look at one of the (many) pieces from the other side:<br /><br />http://theantimedia.org/dropping-the-bomb-on-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-was-never-justified/<br /><br />My thoughts:<br /><br />1. Actually surprised (IF presented accurately) that several high military commanders were against using the atomic bomb.<br /><br />2. This piece got a lot of criticism about how awful the Japanese were. Much of that is backwards looking. The point is not what atrocities the Japanese committed in 1943 and 1944, it is about the best decision in August of 1945.<br /><br />3. I remain open to the possibility that things MIGHT have worked out all peachy without dropping the atomic bomb, IF the Japanese really were trying to negotiate peace at that time (and if an invasion could have been avoided). I remain somewhat skeptical, though (and lengthening the war certainly would have cost SOME American lives), and I am not willing to go so far as to say that the use of the atomic bomb was not justified.<br /><br />4. Perhaps the greatest benefit from using the atomic bomb was not hastening the end of WWII, but the fact that its use has helped prevent any subsequent use of nuclear weapons over the following seventy years. The technology advanced quite rapidly over the next several years, with yields on these weapons going from a few kilotons to more than ten megatons. It is quite possible that if Truman had not ordered the dropping of the atomic bomb, it (or something a thousand times more powerful) would have been used in the intervening years - with far worse consequences.<br /><br />5. Human nature hasn't changed much since then, and I am much more concerned about the decisions that will come up on weapons use in the future than trying to second guess (with hindsight) decisions made before I was even born.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-91022169654912993452015-08-08T04:40:40.841-04:002015-08-08T04:40:40.841-04:00I bet Ye Olde Bleedin Heart liberals railed agains...I bet Ye Olde Bleedin Heart liberals railed against the introduction of the crossbow, horse drawn chariot and gunpowder etc. into warfare.Timbonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-57548248233625122012015-08-08T02:05:09.806-04:002015-08-08T02:05:09.806-04:00His initial assignment was to the Marines.
Whence...His initial assignment was to the Marines.<br /><br />Whence he spent the next year and a half invading Puerto Rico and the Carolinas from an APD. Fox2!https://www.blogger.com/profile/14066854122631446752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-15946079631606885902015-08-08T02:03:23.516-04:002015-08-08T02:03:23.516-04:00My Father was an HA2 (Hospitalman Apprentice 2nd C...My Father was an HA2 (Hospitalman Apprentice 2nd Class) at Lake Sampson, NY, on Aug 15, 1945, waiting for his school to start. Which ended in March/April 1946. His initial assignment was to the Marines. Fox2!https://www.blogger.com/profile/14066854122631446752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-37533764140386734932015-08-07T13:39:44.646-04:002015-08-07T13:39:44.646-04:00i urge anyone who doubts the worth of not one but ...i urge anyone who doubts the worth of not one but two a-bombs to visit the pow graves at the american cemetery in manila, the dutch cemetery at jakarta, and the british cemeteries in singapore, kanchanaburi and yokohama. there were standing japanese orders to execute every remaining pow if japan were invaded. there are no such well-tended graves for the pows drowned on the hellships, or the 20 million chinese, plus filipinos, vietnamese, indonesians, malaysians, burmese, singaporeans who were killed by bullet, bayonet, burning, medical experimentation or starvation. i spent 11 years in japan, punctuated by 2 years of full time, intensive japanese language study. not just a few times over a few drinks i would be told in either nihongo or english that the a-bombs saved japan from utter destruction. and like so many other westerners of my generation, it saved my dad, a veteran of omaha beach at 0930 on 6/6/44, who maintained that his luck would not have held solid for a second beach assault.jthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06813674789003385660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-48505572858432018632015-08-07T13:35:41.826-04:002015-08-07T13:35:41.826-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.jthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06813674789003385660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-815443764323002872015-08-07T03:12:08.346-04:002015-08-07T03:12:08.346-04:00What would've been more troublesome? Having a...What would've been more troublesome? Having a massive arms race for fifty years with no practical sense for the destructive capability of the bomb. Probably would be nobody left today, and certainly no alarmist lefties screaming about the dangers of being more intelligent than cavemen.<br /><br />I don't have a history problem, I have a historian problem.<br /><br />- reader #1482Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-73684173514187946832015-08-07T01:42:59.526-04:002015-08-07T01:42:59.526-04:00Every year the MSM and leftists bring up this &quo...Every year the MSM and leftists bring up this "debate." Since I believe that those who bring it up, yet again, will not listen to any amount of reasoning or FACTS I now simply state, as straight-faced and as even-voiced as I can, it would have been IMMORAL to not drop the two bombs. period.charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-7867697858986060742015-08-07T01:11:27.659-04:002015-08-07T01:11:27.659-04:00Would have hoped they'd have surrendered befor...Would have hoped they'd have surrendered before it came to deploying, but they didn't. America's hands were tied.<br />A lot is also lost in the immediacy of the situation. We weren't just deliberating whether to use fat man and little boy, we had *just* successfully tested an implosion device (gadget) for the first time only a month before! There was a whole lot riding on this and darn good chance that it wouldn't even pop. With that in mind, time was actually of the essence.<br />It's not like we were holding a trump card. It's like we were holding a card that we thought was probably trump, but it was face down on the table.<br />Injecting that uncertainty into it makes the calculus far different than even the more reasonable analyses I see around the web.<br /><br />- reader #1482Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-16264108877889133822015-08-07T00:14:25.642-04:002015-08-07T00:14:25.642-04:00The lefties love to isolate the decision to use nu...The lefties love to isolate the decision to use nuclear weapons from the facts and other options (which many younger people simply don't know, and those those that do are taught that Japan was about to surrender); and all to further their America is only country evil enough to use nuclear weapons meme. It is calculated dishonesty.Brettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-6964530202235495002015-08-06T22:21:01.540-04:002015-08-06T22:21:01.540-04:00On 21 March 1945, my Dad turned 17 yrs. old. His p...On 21 March 1945, my Dad turned 17 yrs. old. His prospects as a draftee in 1946 were<br />piss poor at best. Thanks to the bomb, he went to medical school, met my Mom, be-<br />-came a Doctor and fathered 9 children. I am sure there are at least a million other<br />family histories here in the States that were written this way instead of never being<br />written at all. Same holds true for Japan. <br /><br />MikeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-90848996006244969082015-08-06T21:25:27.611-04:002015-08-06T21:25:27.611-04:00There is a leftist school of crap that we dropped ...There is a leftist school of crap that we dropped the Nukes on Japan to send a message to the damn Russians.. What utter horse dung, Like the monsters running the Soviet Union cared? <br />The fact they jumped in at the bitter end to grab territory should tell all anyone might want to know about the Russians' intent. gatorbaithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10197929713064198686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-28066072921462882032015-08-06T18:58:06.460-04:002015-08-06T18:58:06.460-04:00The russians were ready to get involved as well.The russians were ready to get involved as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-67445115996069047582015-08-06T18:09:06.546-04:002015-08-06T18:09:06.546-04:00I read a book a while back called Hell to Pay. It ...I read a book a while back called Hell to Pay. It was a look at what probably would have happened if Operation Downfall had gone ahead.<br /><br />To begin with, the Japanese knew where we were going to land. The terrain was excellent for the defense, not to mention that they had hidden airfields loaded with Kamikazes that had a nice mountain range that blocked Naval radar. They would have gotten within 50 miles or so of the fleet before they were seen.<br /><br />Look at the damage they did off Okinawa when we had plenty of warning. They also determined that the kamikazes were going to avoid the warships and go for the troop transports. Those were a lot softer to hit, and think of the damage of a troopship fully loaded was hit by two or three of them.<br /><br />The Japanese plan was to make it so expensive that the Allies would be forced to sue for peace.AngryWebmasterhttp://angry.net/blog2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-45745377776925091252015-08-06T17:47:24.269-04:002015-08-06T17:47:24.269-04:00Thee's another side to the argument - the cost...Thee's another side to the argument - the cost to Japan of a longer war. They were on the brink of starvation, with civilians getting ~1600 calories/day. Had the war gone into the winter of 1945, the civilian losses would have been staggering.<br /><br />If you want to criticize Truman for continuing to insist on unconditional surrender, that's another matter. But using atomic weapons was the least bloody way to end the war.Hammerli 280https://www.blogger.com/profile/14198273434960578215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-19605248657171385522015-08-06T17:06:55.968-04:002015-08-06T17:06:55.968-04:00Nicely doneNicely doneDiploMadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02316439950882822419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-92023669752341732902015-08-06T17:05:33.272-04:002015-08-06T17:05:33.272-04:00Hello Bob. Hiroshima & Nagasaki are trotted ou...Hello Bob. Hiroshima & Nagasaki are trotted out constantly by the bleeding heart Left as examples of cold-hearted and callous Western militarism, racism, anti-humanitarianism and a host of other ismisms. It just doesn't stack up as any kind of argument.<br /><br />Since 1931 the Japanese had shown no hesitation in bayoneting, beating to death or burying alive anyone who even mildly disagreed with their 'Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere' (read: Japanese systematic plundering of foreign resources) and their known treatment of subjugated peoples, including POWs had produced in the Allies a previously unknown thirst for revenge. In Australia this sentiment was very strong indeed.<br /><br />Wars are won by infantrymen, the pack & rifle boys, who seize ground from the enemy, hold it, and allow the organisational 'tail' to move in and consolidate. Tanks, fighter planes and battleships are nice support toys but it is the Infantry who the Queen Of Battles in the chess sense. However at the far far end of that 'tail' are the statisticians, the analysts and the theorists who review the results and predict (sometimes right, sometimes wrong) what will happen next. With the projected invasion of the Japanese Home Islands they were dead right. A long and horrid bloodbath for both soldiers and civilians.<br /><br />BUT! It just so happened that Tube Alloys/Manhattan Project had created a bloody big bomb which might just obviate the need to storm ashore on Honshu. They tried it out, it worked and after that it was inevitable. Rule One of warfare in any Age: If you must have war, then win it with the profligate use of every weapon and resource to hand.<br /><br />Sympathy for the Japanese? None whatever. They started it, prolonged it, were losing it badly and refused to accept that fact so they got A-Bombed twice. Tough luck.Popular Frontnoreply@blogger.com