tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post5576673472339572240..comments2024-03-28T01:33:22.764-04:00Comments on The DiploMad 2.0: Veterans Day 2013DiploMadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02316439950882822419noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-69878405585177898052013-11-25T21:53:20.159-05:002013-11-25T21:53:20.159-05:00Thanks for that. You're always welcome late or...Thanks for that. You're always welcome late or early. Genuinely stunning stats.DiploMadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02316439950882822419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-38774829703155188512013-11-19T13:39:27.219-05:002013-11-19T13:39:27.219-05:00We should always take the time to remember our Vet...We should always take the time to remember our Veterans. We are veterans year-round, not just on November 11. Desert Sea Designhttp://www.desertseadesign.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-62826120475423369382013-11-18T00:53:59.097-05:002013-11-18T00:53:59.097-05:00Indeed, the book by Corrigan is excellent. It'...Indeed, the book by Corrigan is excellent. It's written mostly with a perspective on the British experience in WW1, but provides intriguing details about just what life was like then for average soldiers, be they officers or enlisted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-82507338620766921312013-11-17T18:33:05.242-05:002013-11-17T18:33:05.242-05:00Able, it would appear that during my cartoon brows...Able, it would appear that during my cartoon browsing, I have come across a Colonel Blimp.Cascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-73950038488675090202013-11-17T00:25:06.124-05:002013-11-17T00:25:06.124-05:00Sorry about the table, it looked fine in Preview!Sorry about the table, it looked fine in Preview!Sgt 73rd Regthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10279218688409679833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-75837983350390399072013-11-17T00:23:39.535-05:002013-11-17T00:23:39.535-05:00I have come into this debate a bit late but I woul...I have come into this debate a bit late but I would just like to offer the following table:<br /> Comparison of Casualties (Captured, missing, wounded or killed)<br />Australian Campaigns in the Great War - Lt The Hon Stanisforth Smith<br /><br /><br />Country Total Casualties Total Embarkation % Casualties of Embarked<br /> British isles 2,535,424 5,000,000 50.71<br /> Canada 210,100 422,405 49.74<br /> Australia 215,585 331,781 64.98<br /> New Zealand 58,585 98,950 59.01<br /><br />The contribution and sacrifice of the Commonwealth nations in proportion to their population was huge and the perception of the Australian people to the Great war can I think be best summed up by the Cenotaph in Hyde Park, Sydney. Inside as the central theme is the sculpture "Sacrifice" by Rayner Hoff, look up the image and you should see what I am referring to.<br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <br />Sgt 73rd Regthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10279218688409679833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-44873874105199184872013-11-16T05:58:59.893-05:002013-11-16T05:58:59.893-05:00Cascadian
Really? You show your LIV credentials w...Cascadian<br /><br />Really? You show your LIV credentials with every word you type.<br /><br />Red-Tab is Australian military slang for ... wait for it ... an Australian senior officer.<br /><br />Some of us have studied and have experience related to the topic, unlike certain armchair generals who've read a book (presumably with cartoon illustrations) and now think they know it all.Ablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109723804885979128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-32238365844635353592013-11-15T15:57:08.837-05:002013-11-15T15:57:08.837-05:00A Camel is a Horse designed by committee.A Camel is a Horse designed by committee.Popular Frontnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-23583699830936869172013-11-15T01:14:46.609-05:002013-11-15T01:14:46.609-05:00My point replying to Dip's was merely this,
I...My point replying to Dip's was merely this,<br /><br />If it was a <i>General "Acceptance" on the land campaigns to <strong>waste Men on the line</strong> then, as a combatant's strategy being a general thing (strategy is not tactics) - why not on all fronts?</i><br /><br />I think Diplomad's point contains far more mass than we are giving credit to - ordinarily understanding, his Service [as I think more S. Amer in these regards] <strong>and us "merely" typing our understandings/opinions.</strong><br /><br />A "Combatant Country" - or, perhaps as it was with the UK - adopts a strategy then, with tactics seeks the strategic end - goal as it were. <br /><br />There are here "many" who it would seem, <strong>fail abjectly to discern (even with hindsight) what - given Napoleonic tactics then, the American Civil War & Europe's Industrialization [recall: where Carnegie got the Bessemer steel process from] </strong> - land campaign <strong>tactics</strong> could not possibly in my humble opinion, progress at the same rate as technology did.<br /><br />(Keep in mind, Mssrs Gatling, Colt, Maxim & Browning were allowed to tinker up weapons in their home basement workshops unencumbered by <strong>Pentagon <i>Gee DARPA Whiz, Bells & Whistles</i> See for example the first $Trillion DoD F-35 JSF Lightning - which Brother John McCain likes a lot.</strong><br /><br />In the early years of the 20th Century nobody ever thought of what we now know:<br /><br /><strong>An Elephant .... is a Mouse built to Government specifications.</strong><br /><br />I've been thinking about this for a long time and I'd appreciate whatever help - anybody can take the credit - I'm old enough to not care:<br /><br /><strong>When the decision for war is decided by the uninvested so the Congress can put Flag-pins on their lapels, We the People should vote to send Our Government to someplace like Syria or generally speaking, anyplace between Riyadh and Karachi. After nine months we'll accept them back - but if they've not learned any useful skills - another deployment.</strong><br /><br />Lobbyists have to do a ten year tour chopping wood in Antarctica.<br /><br />Well. I may've ...<br /><br />Arkie <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-10659018878489931522013-11-14T20:54:28.770-05:002013-11-14T20:54:28.770-05:00Expensive-yep, most of them. But a couple of barga...Expensive-yep, most of them. But a couple of bargains there.<br /><br />http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=general+monashCascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-51784371307072868822013-11-14T20:49:00.485-05:002013-11-14T20:49:00.485-05:00Well, it seems that the prime minister of the UK a...Well, it seems that the prime minister of the UK as well as others had already formed the opinion that Haig and most of his staff was stupid and wasteful, but could not find a better candidate. What does that say about the British general staff?<br /><br />That lefties have exploited that view is unsurprising. I don't think it should negate our sympathy for the poor tommies, diggers, canucks and others of all classes that suffered and died for often foolish reasons of no tactical importance. <br /><br />http://books.google.ca/books?id=39lMz-GiafgC&pg=PA233&lpg=PA233&dq=imperial+war+cabinet+haig+stupidity&source=bl&ots=4e-5b8l3nK&sig=rhjCx4d6LxmNHfNn3hfNRjIHLK8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=nnqFUviHD4XW2QXuvoHwBQ&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=imperial%20war%20cabinet%20haig%20stupidity&f=false<br /><br />Page 232-3.Cascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-51972302245301647262013-11-14T20:27:20.661-05:002013-11-14T20:27:20.661-05:00I have a wonderful book: 'War Letters of Gener...I have a wonderful book: 'War Letters of General Monash', edited by A.K. Macdougall, which contains Monash's letters to his wife. It is a remarkable insight into the man and his role in WWI. It was originally published in 1934 following Monash's death in 1931. I have a reprint by Duffy & Snellgrove, Sydney, 2002.Brettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-7136250724537388242013-11-14T18:32:31.743-05:002013-11-14T18:32:31.743-05:00David from Oz-- I am glad you mentioned Monash. It...David from Oz-- I am glad you mentioned Monash. It is very hard in the States to get a good bio on the man who was probably not just Australia's greatest general but the greatest general of WWI. My old Jewish grandmother living in Morocco was the first person I ever heard mention Monash. According to her, whenever anybody needed anything great doing, they had to call a Jew to do it. She used to say, when the British and French couldn't beat the Germans in the First World War, they had to call on an Australian Jew to do it for them. Admittedly, my grandmother was not an objective observer of life, but still I have enjoyed reading about Monash and am trying to score a good bio of him. On Amazon they are incredibly expensive.DiploMadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02316439950882822419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-90763169092492176152013-11-14T18:25:43.984-05:002013-11-14T18:25:43.984-05:00A good anecdote, and the way diplomacy should be c...A good anecdote, and the way diplomacy should be conducted, I'm sure Diplomad would agree.Cascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-59279502129744765782013-11-14T18:24:08.239-05:002013-11-14T18:24:08.239-05:00Thank you, were I to try to convince myself that E...Thank you, were I to try to convince myself that English generals were not all wastrels, what would you recommend. <br /><br />Not Passchendaele for sure, and I'm guessing the first volume is a general history. So the Prior book whose name name you referenced previously?Cascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-42895259881286645092013-11-14T17:30:16.446-05:002013-11-14T17:30:16.446-05:00Consider yourself berated by your betters, Brett. ...Consider yourself berated by your betters, Brett. When the tough get going, the generals read their ADFA and attend to the filing system.<br /><br />It's all here in one neat sentence- "I've yet to meet a Red-Tab who'd agree with your interpretation is all" British generals (red tabs for the benefit of all us colonial plebs) don't agree with your interpretation-surprise,surprise,surprise. <br /><br />Those might be the generals who dazzled us with their tactics at Basra in recent times, perhaps.Cascadiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-23107575583689569612013-11-14T15:10:21.610-05:002013-11-14T15:10:21.610-05:00A bit off-topic but at an Imperial Conference in e...A bit off-topic but at an Imperial Conference in early 1918 the Canadian Prime minister Sir Robert Borden, enraged by the level of Canadian casualties and demonstrated British incompetence siezed the British Prime Minister Lloyd George by the lapels and shook him 'like a Jack Russel shaking a rat' according to startled onlookers.Popular Frontnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-66348308818629328662013-11-14T07:12:26.599-05:002013-11-14T07:12:26.599-05:00British generals have commanded US forces, however...British generals have commanded US forces, however. Sir Harold Alexander commanded 15th Army Group in WW2 for the invasions of Sicily and Italy (US 3d and later 5th Army were under him). Montgomery commanded 21st Army Group from D-Day until the formation of 12th US Army Group later that summer.<br /><br />In WWI, US forces landing at Archangel, Russia, were under the command of Sir Edmund Ironside during their fight against the Bolsheviks.<br /><br />So it has happened before. The US 1st Infantry Division was likewise under UK command during early US involvement in WWI. It was logical the Commonwealth forces should be under British command initially and much has been made of "callous" British commanders sacrificing the colonials, but it's mostly nonsense (regardless of public opinion).<br /><br />The British contribution to WWI was huge; so was that of the Commonwealth formations and let's not forget the French, who suffered some 5 million killed and wounded.Merkwürdigliebehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08633547688991082358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-49517831831531785582013-11-14T03:48:23.078-05:002013-11-14T03:48:23.078-05:00That is rather funny, if only because it is fair d...That is rather funny, if only because it is fair description of the way that you have behaved toward anyone who has a view different to your own. It never ceases to amaze how the British fail to comprehend how they are really seen in the Commonwealth and former colonies. You have this strange idea that because we share some distant common heritage, and speak the same language, that we are the same and somehow beholden to you. Brettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-50113637070086858482013-11-14T02:50:39.095-05:002013-11-14T02:50:39.095-05:00Actually Brett i thought it passed the rational ev...Actually Brett i thought it passed the rational event horizon quite some time ago - still it is probably an unusual experience when someone whom you have insulted/disparaged their person, nation, military and culture turns around in the end and insults you back.<br /><br />As they say "don't try to teach a pig ...", I'll remember next time.<br /><br />Maybe reading some of the syllabus/required reading list of the ADFA will help - I've yet to meet a Red-Tab who'd agree with your interpretation is all.Ablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109723804885979128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-17731980468805857222013-11-14T00:33:28.330-05:002013-11-14T00:33:28.330-05:00Able,
Your responses have passed beyond any form ...Able,<br /><br />Your responses have passed beyond any form of rational debate. Think what you will. <br />Brettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-65547907374340473802013-11-14T00:19:16.806-05:002013-11-14T00:19:16.806-05:00Brett
Commonwealth armies? Which ones were they? ...Brett<br /><br />Commonwealth armies? Which ones were they? A Corps is not an army (still at least you did have your own unlike Cascadians Canadians, half British and the rest Britain's who lived in Canada). Just as when the overwhelming majority of troops are American in WW 2 (Korea, Iraq, Nato) overall command is automatically American. in WW 1 senior command was British. That senior command remained, over all Australian forces, until May 1918 when Monash was promoted because he was favoured by Haig and Birdwood who held command until then (inconveniently for your narrative during those other Australian victories) and they 'remained in overall command' of him and his afterwards.<br /><br />Technology (tanks, machine guns, aircraft) and evolution of tactics, across the board, is what changed. Innovations and developments, such as combined arms, were used by all - that Monash was particularly good is unquestioned, but he was hardly either the first or the only practitioner.<br /><br />'British' revisionists! Are you serious? With intellectual integrity like that you must be a democrat. History has been rewritten by anti-British (anti-Imperial, anti-colonial, left-wing ivory tower intellectuals) for a century. Care to tell me how many of those British dead (two of my Great Uncles included) were/are ever even acknowledged as even being there at Gallipoli on your ANZAC day? Or do you ever acknowledge that at Hamel, Australias great victory, it was British tanks, artillery and aircraft or does 'combined arms' only count if you're the Australian part of it? Hypocrisy, what a surprise. (Try comparing it to the average Armistice Day in a small British town where all the commonwealth etc. are remembered).<br /><br />British, French, etc. all were forced by circumstances to use the same tactics. The Germans likewise (care to check their dead, or the Ottomans at Gallipoli). But according to you 'only' the British were incompetent and wasteful. Likewise as tactics and technology adapted, despite most being British innovations, it was 'only' the Australians who did so, and subsequently won the war for the rest of us - hurrah for you!<br /><br />Keep living in your little dream world.<br /><br />As I've said repeatedly before, I'm not dismissing or minimising the contributions of Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, South Africans (and all the other commonwealth and European nations). This supposed 'creeping airbrushing', if it is indeed occurring, will be no more than questioning the blatant falsehoods, propaganda, jingoism and hypocrisy. Then all I can say is 'about bloody time' that some redress occurred - not that 'the science is settled' types like you would ever consider reading anything that might make you question your 'faith' (sure you're not a democrat?).Ablehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18109723804885979128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-68129893124966118332013-11-13T23:22:31.117-05:002013-11-13T23:22:31.117-05:00Unfortunately for the Left, we veterans do not see...Unfortunately for the Left, we veterans do not see ourselves as "victims" of anything. We also tend to believe that despite the end of our active service to the Nation, our oath to the Constitution has no expiration date.KellyJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01342332734935313737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-19405825976998127692013-11-13T17:42:49.679-05:002013-11-13T17:42:49.679-05:00Glad you weighed in.
I'm not myself "up ...Glad you weighed in.<br /><br />I'm not myself "up to snuff" on the land campaigns - although three uncles died, one came back gassed - there was just the single mention of ASW (to which I almost chimed in "If the land generalship was so bad, why was the Admiralty so good?")<br /><br />ArkieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1400985529434569506.post-24309378582214520632013-11-13T17:38:24.373-05:002013-11-13T17:38:24.373-05:00Able,
"Notice many British Generals commandi...Able,<br /><br />"Notice many British Generals commanding a majority American army? No, think that 'may' have been a more likely reason?"<br /><br />And yet you have no problem with British Generals commanding Commonwealth armies. <br /><br />Australia rightly revolted at the slaughter of our troops in the wastrel stalemate on the Western Front engineered by the British High Command; which is why Australia asserted its right to command of Australian troops. I have visited in Northern France the graves of 4 of my forebears who paid the price of the British Command of which you are so proud. Others who returned to Australia did so because they served under Australian command, which saw the folly in repetitively hurling men to useless slaughter, and came up with a better way that broke the stalmate.<br /><br />No country won the war by itself; but Britain was well on the way to losing it as late as 1918. British revisionists have since engaged in a creeping airbrushing of the contributions of all of the other nations who fought in WWI.Brettnoreply@blogger.com