I am going to write about something that is not my area of expertise--I admit, it's not hard to find such an area. I am going to write about the insanity on some of our streets; in particular the insanity that masquerades as political discourse.
We've all seen the fiasco in the beautiful town of Charlottesville.
It seems some (How many?) so-called neo-Nazis/white supremacist thugs decided to hold a march in that community. It gets murky after that: Did the city authorities authorize it? Did they authorize the much larger counter-demonstration by so-called Anti-fascist thugs? Where were the police? Is it true that authorities called back the cops and told them to stand down? If so, why?
Who the hell is the miserable little punk who drove a car into the crowd killing one woman and injuring a score of other people? From what I've seen in the news about him--and I won't write his name--he has a somewhat whacky personal history including lasting only a few months in the military. I am sure that as the facts gradually emerge he will become a more complex character, and, I predict, much of the current "he was a pro-Trump guy" narrative will change, and perhaps even disappear.
The President put out an OK statement condemning the violence in rather general terms, and calling for national unity. The media and the enlightened elite, of course, are all aflame that the President did not specifically name "white nationalists" and "white supremacists" as the culpable party on the violence. Perhaps he should have been more specific in his denunciation, but I certainly had no trouble understanding that he was condemning the "Nazis." He, of course, has the example of President Obama who, let us not forget, invited the Black Lives Matter gangsters to the White House, and never could get himself to condemn them, the Antifa thugs, or Islamic terrorists for their actions. I trust President Trump will not follow the Obama example; I doubt he will invite the "Nazis" to the White House. So there is that.
Do the left really think that Trump is responsible for the apparent rise of white nationalist groups? Might they not look at the past several years of progressive white bashing as a more realistic cause? The left has insisted on reopening old racial wounds and resurrecting old and long-buried race monsters and now they are surprised? I wrote over four years ago that you can only keep pushing people so far before they will react.
Now, let me be very clear. I think, in no uncertain terms, that if you live in a Western country and you go around waving Nazi or Communist flags, or espousing Nazi or Communist ideology, you are a Moron. Period. You are not a person to be taken seriously as a thinker or problem solver.
In the US, your Moronism is protected by the first amendment. Fine. That, however, does not give you the right to beat people up and kill them whether it is with a gun, bicycle lock, or a car. If you do any of those, you are a Moron AND a criminal.
If you had to identify causes for the rising tide white nationalism chief among them would be the unchecked rise of identity politics that is applied to benefit of any minority and almost always to the detriment of Caucasian Americans, and second would be the unchecked violence by the left against anyone who crosses their imaginary lines. People can be attacked only for so long before they decide to fight back, and the extreme are usually the first to do so. Trump isn't the catalyst, this is on the left and its unhinged embrace of identity politics and the campaign of violence that has been waged by them since last November.
ReplyDeleteI have been watching this since the TEA Party effectively dissolved as an active group when nothing changed. Frustration leads to more direct actions and the Far Right becomes more attractive to many when the political conservatives lack backbone.
DeleteI have been watching this since the TEA Party effectively dissolved as an active group when nothing changed. Frustration leads to more direct actions and the Far Right becomes more attractive to many when the political conservatives lack backbone.
DeleteI haven't seen race relationships this bad since the 60's. the Divider in chief saw to that. He made situations worse at every turn. He ALWAYS sided with the wrong side.
ReplyDeleteIMO, this is a problem of counter-protest. I'm not sure of the origins, but disruptive protesting of a scheduled political event is the *main culprit* in political violence today.
ReplyDeleteWhy is a municipality required to issue an assembly permit that will conflict with an existing assembly permit and host two sides of an extremely bitter feud? Is it just because the local city council wants their names in the national news with quotes of them disparaging one side or the other?
It's insane.
I don't see any reason why a city can't say "yes, your assembly permit is valid for the day after the other guys, as you requested a slot that is already full. This has nothing to do with the content of your speech, only the practical ability of this town to keep the peace." I don't see how this would even fail a 'strict scrutiny' examination.
Trump campaigned in San Jose, California. I was available. I *could* have gone. But I'm glad I didn't, because attendees of the Trump campaign were harassed and physically assaulted en masse by... yup... counter-protesters.
One assembly at a time... they have the right to make any statement they want, anywhere they want *or* at any time they want, but not at a time *and* place deliberately chosen to disrupt an opposing event.
And now the race is on to condemn this bunch of (I think, less than 300) demonstrators because they hold ideals I disagree with. It's not enough to disagree with them. It's not enough to not support them and just mind my own business. No, the McCains of the "conservatives" tell us that we must actively condemn these people, their group, and their cause, because *we* are the ones without sin? Because *we* are the pharisees?
Let God judge the people with whom we disagree.
We cannot change the minds of people with opposing views by telling them that they're condemned and unacceptable. Hillary certainly bridged no gap by calling her opponents a 'basket of deplorables'.
- reader #1482
Excellent
DeleteWell done reader #1482 ! Some of the best commentary I've read on this.
DeleteWell said, #1482. I like your suggestion, but I'm not sure that the Left is willing to abide by sensible ideas like those you present; they seem to prefer violence, as long as they can get the upper hand.
DeleteI've done my best to provide some answers to the questions posed above by the esteemed Diplomad. Any errors are my own, but I've used many sources (even WaPo and the NYT!) to try to minimize them. (Apologies for the length.)
It seems some (How many?) so-called neo-Nazis/white supremacist thugs decided to hold a march in that community. Yes; it was to be held in Lee Park, now renamed “Emancipation Park” to spit in the eye of any who may fondly remember General Robert E. Lee. The Park has a stature of General Lee, which the city of Charlottesville had decided to remove, against which decision the protest was organized.
It gets murky after that: Yes it does, and the MSM is doing everything it can to cover up the actual events. Some of this is due to incompetence, but a great deal is because they are pushing their narrative as usual.
Did the city authorities authorize it? Yes. The protest marchers who call themselves “Unite The Right” sought and received a permit from the City to hold their demonstration. That was originally denied, but then authorized by US District Judge Glen Conrad from the Federal District Court of the Western District of Virginia. As the protest march was being held, the Charlottesville Police Chief announced a Declaration of Unlawful Assembly to cancel the march, as by this time Antifa members had already instigated violence. An interesting point: as Virginia is a gun-friendly State, many of the “right-wing” were well-armed. However, not a shot was fired.
Did they authorize the much larger counter-demonstration by so-called Anti-fascist thugs? No. The Antifa fascists came unauthorized, but were allowed to violently counter-demonstrate. The police did nothing to stop them or attempt to break them up. They came well equipped with masks and body armor, armed with soft drink cans filled with concrete, bottles and balloons filled with urine and other substances, pepper spray, baseball bats and bricks. There are reliable reports that these people were bussed in to disrupt proceedings, but I have not confirmed this.
Where were the police? Is it true that authorities called back the cops and told them to stand down? If so, why? The police were told to stand down by the Mayor of Charlottesville. The Chief of Police issued a Declaration of Unlawful Assembly notice at the behest of the Mayor and the Governor of VA declared a State of Emergency in Virginia. This cancelled the authorized legal protest but (oddly!) did not disrupt the illegal counter-protest. The police in general made themselves scarce; it took them around 6 minutes to arrive on the scene where the young man ran his car into the crowd, and longer yet for ambulances to arrive.
That's all the fisking I can do at this time. A good timeline and presentation of fact can be found on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/live/zfcobdlphs4p/
Personally I do not believe ANYTHING I find in the MSM anymore, as almost everything is slanted to fit their "narrative." YMMV.
I take issue with your assertion that two assembly permits were issued. Unless facts prove me wrong only one group was issued a public permit. Antifa and BLM were in the streets with no permit to assemble. But this is pretty much par for the course as we have seen several times before; those that play by the rules are overwhelmed by those that don't and there is virtually no repercussions for their aggressive tactics.
DeleteIn this case, the Antifa and BLM really dialed it up. Without a permit they assembled in their hundreds and hurled feces, urine, rocks, smoke bombs and pepper spray at those who had a permit to assemble...
The left is driving this train. And the MSM is complicit in it.
Had there been no counter protest and no news coverage, we wouldn't even have known about it. The way to actually shrink the neo-Nazi groups is to starve them of attention. It's in the medias interest to foment trouble and exacerbate every situation.
DeleteI hadn't considered that *nobody* applied for a permit for the counter-protest. If not, then the city can disband it without cause. I hope the family of this counter-protester sues the city for failing to stop this immensely dangerous situation.
DeleteWithout a permit, there is no coordination with law enforcement, and no means by which to safeguard those protesting, or the local civilian population.
- reader #1482
Why did Charlottesville act in many ways to allow or encourage a confrontation with the Pro-Lee white group? I will guess.
DeleteI call the group Pro-Lee rather than White Nationalist because I don't know anything about them and I distrust the press to tell me. I do know that Antifa is violent, and seems to be to be the Nazi (National Socialist) in the situation, ironically.
So, why?
(1) To introduce violence into the assembly of the Pro-Lee group. Antifa came spoiling for a fight, without a permit, allowed by the city and the police. I have to see Antifa as the source of the violence and confrontation. Press reports will repeatedly mention how assembly of the Pro-Lee group "descended into violence". Just as the press reported that Trump campaign rallies encouraged violence, when that violence was injected by Democrat protesters.
(2) To keep from hearing the words of the Pro-Lee group. Their words might have been reasonable, or may have labelled themselves as extreme. I think the Progressive elements of Charlottesville, the Dem party, and the governor of VA could not take that chance.
We see a political struggle for the minds of moderate and independent voters. Progressives want to label the opposition as always violent, while silencing it. They want to smear a series of public events which will suppress attendence and stop increased power for that opposition. That is their theory, anyway. This worked in supressing the Tea Party, whose public meetings were smeared the same way.
I am gathering from Twitter that there was a Free Speech rally planned in Boston that has already been cancelled due to threats from Antifa. If true, this should disturb every American regardless of politics
DeleteLook at the background of the Mayor of the local uprising. No more needs to be said.
Deletehttp://www.charlottesville.org/departments-and-services/departments-a-g/city-council/council-members/mike-signer
The progressives madness is feeding the nationalists, including the extremists. I have read that these extremists rallied because of the suggestion to remove a statue of General Lee. To many this is a provocative way to "rewrite history". It is to me,and I am certainly no extremist. Because it is what the Khmer Rouge wanted to do, it is what the Cultural Revolution in China was all about, it is what happens in dictatorships. Anyhow, it was a lawful demonstration, they had a permission. And then along came the counter-protesters and everything went wild.
ReplyDeleteWe have seen Charlottesville events happen over and over again over here as well. And it is almost always the "anti-fascists" who are the largest group, the most violent group, they make the chaos happen. Exactly what reader #1482 writes, disruptive protesting is the main culprit of political violence today.
The progressives and their tools,the "anti-fascists", are so used to having politicians like Obama patting them on the head that they are now shocked that this president tries to be a unifying leader. They always want the upper hand, they want to decide the agenda. They are simply intolerant. They don´t want to see that this is part of the problem, a vicious circle.
Besides, what do we know about the driver, who was he, did he even drive into people with intention or because of other reasons, the streets were packed, maybe he was just scared. Just like in many other cases, people jump to conclusion too quickly.
Swedishlady
I'm such a fool. I was reading this very sober and sensible comment, nodding in agreement, and then scrolled the screen just a bit, and there it was,, the signature from Swedish Lady. Should have known.
DeleteMFA
She's good. We need her in the States!
DeleteI wonder if the forensics on the car will prove that he was attacked by the mob and therefore put peddle to the meddle to get out of there.
DeleteI don't think I would like to go the Reginald Denney route...
I worked in South Central LA for several years after the Rodney King riots and I was completely on board of running anyone down that tried to impede my travel, hijack my car, etc. Rather than having a brick in my head I opted for extreme force and letting a court figure out the liability. Not to mention that I had a pit bull ride along with me that would have given her life at my command (our family dog...)
No, when your car is surrounded your life is in danger.
When the South were Democrats, the progs left them alone. Now that they are Republicans, the liberal media relishes in rubbing their noses in the Civil War. This Charlottesville fiasco centered around the statue of R.E. Lee, one of our greatest generals who is now being turned into a pariah by the left. When Lee surrendered at Appomattox court house, as he emerged with Gen. Grant, Grant had hs band strike up "Dixie" in respect for the battles well fought.
ReplyDeleteThis spirit of reconciliation is now being buried under the slime of newly-discovered racism ... purely for political gain. Yes, it was a moron driving that car, but he was egged on by even bigger morons.
On young Robert Lee's 21st birthday, he freed all his inherited slaves. He was an Abolitionist who put his money where his mouth was.
DeleteMichael F Adams
For all the hand-wringing by "progressives" about US policies possibly radicalizing various groups around the world, they seem totally oblivious to the notion that progressive policies are actively radicalizing their own neighbors.
ReplyDelete"The insanity that masquerades as political discourse." This is all a perversion of the "freedom of assembly." Peaceful meetings and speeches are normal public manifestations of political movements. The hagiography of the 1960s elevated violence as acceptable, and the previous administration encouraged it. Now, by going after Confederate monuments, they are tearing open the racial divisions in the South that, after 50 years, had begun to heal.
ReplyDeleteI do wonder why now? One would think that if this wasn't a ginned up controversy it would have taken place in the late 60's and 70's.
DeleteWhy now do people feel so strongly that they are willing to commit violence?
I find myself wondering if the "progressives" really think they can create an Arab Spring here in their fanatical quest to undo our last election.
DeleteNot sure America as we know it will survive POTUS' removal
My guess is that the Left Fascists achieved what they have been trying to do for ages i.e. to provoke the Right into violence.
ReplyDeleteIt's an old game: how foolish to fall for it.
The only difference is that the Lemming Left jumps off the cliffs willingly; the Right are more like buffalo who have to be driven to such behavior. And then once they're dead, the "Indians" can collect their hides.
DeleteInitial "cops at the station" reports on the kid in the car was that it was not malicious and he was scared. A tragedy, but given the governor and mayor aren't pontificating to exploit it so much now, it may just be that rather than something malicious. Any defense is likely to bring up the violence by the Antifa+ crowd, which is something the media and state officials are seeking to downplay.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, the governors seemingly tacit approval of the violence of the ironically named Antifa has made the white supremacists look better than they should. Their views may be abhorrent, but most Americans have a harsher view of denial of civil rights.
BTW, Diplomad, Charlottesville is full of your old cohorts,i.e., Civil Service retirees with enough money to live well and to live near enough to D.C. to visit their old haunts. As a result, they've driven real estate prices beyond the reach of the police, firemen, teachers, etc., who used to be able to live there.
ReplyDeleteAround here it's known as "Berkeley East".
Put otherwise: they've driven real estate prices to a level that substantially enriched the police, firemen, and teachers who sold them their houses.
DeleteIf you live in Charlottesville, your Mayor has significant ties to Berkeley.
DeleteYou may be interested in this take of what happened.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.4liberty.org.uk/2017/08/14/charlottesville/
Out in the sticks
A pattern is emerging: cops stand down, and somehow outcome is American right is somehow, one way or another, screwed. Is it the cops, or is it Dem. city officials?
ReplyDeleteShooter of Congressman Scalise? Nah, violence is all Trump's fault, As is North Korea. New Orleans is flooding again. Probably Bush' fault.
I think Trump does make life harder for himself than necessary. Condemn neo-nazis and kkk by name and avoid all the fuss. Imho.
Did Obama in 8 years ever call out radical Muslims for equivalent or much worse. Of course not. I kinda think this is Trump's small-minded way of payback. We'll see if this lasts an equivalent amount of time ...
DeleteNo, Obama didn't. My concern is Trump and his survival/success. About 20 minutes ago, Trump did do exactly what I hoped he would do. My point is he could often save himself unneccessary grief.
DeleteYes, I heard. But the MSM rants, "too little, too late"! He just can't win ... even if he had said it to begin with.
DeleteI'm pretty sure Trump's plans involve timing his baiting of the media.
DeleteIt's too regular of a cycle to be incidental.
Anon @9:38 pm
DeleteAgreed, he keeps attention on the circus rather than what he and his Admin. are getting done, which is a lot. No one is impeding what his appointees are doing since all attention is on him. My concern is he is putting himself in too much jeopardy. I understand the strategy, but above all, he must protect himself and ensure his survival.
"you can only keep pushing people so far before they will react." Yes Diplomad, I am seeing it all around me.
ReplyDeleteSome say we are in a cold civil war and I agree. But it need not get "hot" because we deplorables control the keys to the infrastructure. The far left is mainly in the blue cities and suburbs of the cities whose electrical power, food (avg of a 3 day supply at any one time there), commodities and most water passes through red areas. The left is dependent on the deplorables for these things and the far left apparently believes that they can physically and rhetorically attack the deplorables and not face repercussions. Ever tried to exist without electrical power? It doesn't take violence from the deplorables to shutdown blue areas, just deplorables not showing up for work.
It would take a lot for a "general strike" to occur, but even the National Guard is staffed by deplorables.
And let me tell you this, while it may be an over generalization, I have known few liberals/progressive who know which end of a screwdriver is the working end.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAs odd as it might seem (especially for me) I'd suggest President Trump when addressing racially tinged outrages pull a page out of President Obama's playbook.
ReplyDeleteFor instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv_qVUsfikU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DScO-JEkDUQ
***
On a lighter note, as some of our citizens see "statue takedowns" as, in however so palliative such a thing could be - I occasioned myself to go over on one of my state's Proggy sites to offer a possible solution - As Follows:
'I think I could possibly get over it if, y'all go ahead pulling statues of long dead heroes to some if, and only if, y'all replace that heroic figure's statue down with an appropriate modern era hero.
I suggest Anthony Weiner holding aloft a cellphone camera.'
JK
"if you live in a Western country and you go around waving Nazi or Communist flags, or espousing Nazi or Communist ideology, you are a Moron."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree! I assume we could also agree that if you take weapons to a planned and permitted legal demonstration for the purpose of committing violence and preventing people from enjoying free speech that you are a moron.
But as more evidence comes out it seems that the Nazis and KKK that attended this demonstration were "plants" by the left and this entire event was engineered by the left and that the mayor, governor and police colluded in creating a violent riot. I suspect that what the authorities did by conspiring to create a riot are complicit in the resulting death and injuries.
Someone apparently hit or kicked kid's car. This may have been the equivalent of road rage by a deranged or drunk kid. So far, state charged appropriately, second degree murder, plus a number of counts of aggravated battery. Whether facts merit it or not, it will become domestic terror case - when perhaps it was only road rage. Which I am in no way excusing. Kid killed someone and hurt lots of people. But charges will be piled on. In the extreme, if they find any intent to commit any felony, kid could get hit with charges about two police officers who were later killed in helicopter crash. And I've already heard talk of upping 2nd degree to first degree murder. I don't remember who has been charged before for deaths in riots. I lived in New York when Sharpton was doing his thing. He was, imo, directly responsible for 3 (?) deaths. Now he is honored elder statesman of Dem. Party. Again, I am not excusing kid.
ReplyDeleteI want Trump and America to survive, so I back however much they pile on the kid. Maybe I'm also furious at kid not only for killing someone but for doing something that hurts our side.
Morons or not, they had a valid permit (initially denied). the anti protesters did not and an eyewitness states, they began attacking the "neo's", not the other way around. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3576803/posts The police then chose to withdraw, saying it too dangerous. the is also some suggestion the driver of the car panicked as a bat was swung at the rear end of the car. https://streamable.com/21gc9 Of course we may dismiss the sources since they are obviously less than liberal. http://www.departmentofmemes.com/article/charlottesville-driver-wasnt-white-supremacist-terrified-report/m Of course we might be tempted to dismiss any of those reports as right wing propaganda. Even counter protesters admitted they chased the neo's and were shocked the cops protected them at one point. https://itsgoingdown.org/charlottesville-kkk-protesters-describe-brutal-police-crackdown/
ReplyDeleteThe first time I have read about Antifa having a permit: ACLU, "However, the city did not also seek to revoke a permit for the counter-protester group even though it was expected to be considerably larger. " They allowed both to be there, really stupid.
Deletehttp://hotair.com/archives/2017/08/14/aclu-virginia-criticizes-law-enforcement-charlottesville-not-effective/
If Antifa had ignored the neo-Nazi rally there would have been almost zero coverage as anybody with any common since would have avoided it. The neo-nazi did jump through all the hoops and did do the law abiding process to hold their rally. The Governor called for a police stand-down opening the doors for an illegal anti-rally. The Governor's decision opened up the door for violence. Antifa was looking for a confrontation and mayhem. There were no permits for the Antifa's anti-neo-nazi rally. But Antifa has a history if being outside of the law. These are two polar opposite bigoted groups and the authorities stepped back and let the animals fight it out. Put blame where it belongs - the Governor's office.
ReplyDelete'll just leave this here.
ReplyDeletehttp://i.4cdn.org/pol/1502667845886.webm
http://i.4cdn.org/pol/1502666291103.webm
https://twitter.com/barnes_law/status/896520500339331076
The driver was ambushed and then pursued in a city where the cops were deliberately told to stand down, and where people had been threatening to kill him all weekend.
Read all of this, watch all of this slowly, and take it fully on board. I wish to hell our national leaders would, instead of merely reacting to enemy agitprop.
"Read all of this, watch all of this slowly, and take it fully on board. I wish to hell our national leaders would, instead of merely reacting to enemy agitprop."
ReplyDeleteI don't think all our "national leaders" regard the agitprop as coming from "enemies." Certainly, the media do not. They are on the side of "the revolution," even though they imagine it can be peaceful.
What we are seeing is much like what was seen between the extreme left and the extreme right in Weimar Germany, although we have not yet reached the point of serious economic disruption. It is going to get much, much worse as the unfunded obligations of our society come due.
"If you can keep your head
While all about you..."
another fred
I just came here from the Belmont Club, Subotaibahadur posted this,
ReplyDeletehttp://disq.us/p/1ld5509
He says this, "2) Now we have to be curious about the accuracy of the flags flying. The leader of the protest was one Jason Kessler. Kessler has an interesting background. Until late 2016 Kessler was active with OCCUPY, Obama's OFA, and was a reporter for CNN. Not exactly a conservative background."
White men
ReplyDeleteBringing you Civilization for 3000 years
Order your T-Shirt now.
I believe the many fine readers of this blog will enjoy enjoy Jim Quinn's thoughts.
ReplyDeleteI groan at this Charlotteville thing. I made the mistake of posting sentiments similar to yours on FB, and now have most of my extended family hating me and accusing me of sympathy for Nazis.
ReplyDeleteThere's plenty of evil in human hearts. It's one reason why a number of theologians of both the Calvinist and ROman persuasion wrote some long tracts about the political supremacy of law and limits on state power back in the 16th and 17th centuries. Hence, I would not say that our First Amendment protects the right to be a moron. It protects the right to learn, grow, and interact with fellow citizens.
"White men
ReplyDeleteBringing you Civilization for 3000 years"
Not my sort of white men: we were head-hunting while the Greeks did maths and the Romans built aqueducts.
the progs left them alone. Now that they are Republicans, the liberal media relishes in rubbing their noses in the Civil War. This Charlottesville fiasco centered around the statue of R.E. Lee, one of our greatest generals who is now being turned into a pariah by the left.
ReplyDeleteหนังเกาหลีใหม่
I was in Charlottesville last Sunday (27 August) having been rescued by a group of God-Forbid Christian Campers visiting Spy Rock overnight where I had ended up on the Application Trail after 170-mile slog over two weeks. The group's leader is about to graduate college in December, the rest attend local area colleges and were both white and black students - but alas Christian. Everyone of them stated that Charolttesville is the "Most Liberal City" in Virgina! Each could not understand why the White-Racists showed up in their city... maybe simply because the aim was to put a speck in the eye of Liberalism itself? They all knew that the city govt stood down the police and channeled both groups into one another on purpose, but still had no answers.
ReplyDeleteHaving been hiking since before the event, I had little knowledge of the news... I had heard the USS John McCain was rammed; how many under the watch of Obama's appointed Navy Admirals was this?
Interesting enough while waiting in the Amtrack lobby, a young college grad just hired WaPo political reporter sat next to me to charge her phone and dropped names of "friends" in the establishment and echoed her DNC bonafids. She was working to write something on North Korea to put Republicans and the military in a bad light with her colleagues at the paper. I pointed out the reason the Chinese were upset about defensive missiles deployed by Trump was that their radar and electronices could probably "report" anything they picked up as far as "Peking";) I asked her to try to be a bit more neutral at the WaPo and she was horrified at the prospect of putting this Administration in a good light.