Sunday, January 20, 2013

Hostages and the Value of Life

Reading about the Algeria hostage situation which has ended with a large number, or perhaps all the hostages taken by the Islamists killed in a "rescue" attempt by Algerian forces. This horrid event brings to light a couple of themes which need underlining.

The Algerian Interior Ministry stated that,
"To avoid a bloody turn of events in response to the extreme danger of the situation, the army's special forces launched an intervention with efficiency and professionalism to neutralize the terrorist groups that were first trying to flee with the hostages and then blow up the gas facilities."
On first reading the statement sounds absurd. The Minister talks about executing an operation with "efficiency" and "professionalism" that resulted in the hostages being killed along with their Al Qaeda kidnappers. On closer reading, however, it is a perfectly accurate description of the attitude most of the world has towards hostages and hostage-takers.

A small number of countries, e.g., the US, the UK, Israel, Australia, have police and military special forces trained to resolve hostage situations with an emphasis on getting the hostages back alive. That is not the case in most of the world. In most of the world the emphasis is similar to what the Russians did in "resolving" the October 2002 hostage crisis in Moscow's Dubrovka Theater. As you will remember a band of some 40 Chechin terrorists seized the theater and held several hundred persons hostage. After some three days of "negotiations,"Russian Special Forces (Spetsnaz) intervened, pumping in gas, and shooting. They killed the kidnappers and about 130 hostages. There was a similar result in the even more bloody September 2004 Beslan hostage taking in which Chechen Islamists took over a school. Again, the Russians intervened with brute force killing all the Chechens but also over 300 hostages, including children. In the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, Israel or a handful of other civilized countries, that sort of result would have proven totally unacceptable. In most of the world, however, that is a success. The objective of these operations is to kill the hostage-takers, and end the embarrassment and threat they pose to the government. Once the hostages fall into the hands of the crazies, they are written off. The thinking is brutal and simple, "I don't care about the hostages you have. You have no bargaining chip. I am going to kill you." For those who think like that, the events I have listed were not "botched" at all: they were great successes.

The events in Algeria also bring up, yet again, the consequences of the bizarre US and European  policies in North Africa. Our overthrow of Qaddafi, at the behest of the EU, and our support for the overthrow of Mubarak have produced a disaster that is spreading throughout North Africa and even into Sub-Saharan Africa. The virus of Berserker Islam is spreading throughout the region. The once-effective counters to it, the unpleasant Mubarak and Muammar "Margarita of the Magreb" Qaddafi, are now gone. Our policy of seeking out defeat and throwing away victory is bearing fruit.

Welcome to Obama's world.  Can't wait for the next four years.

53 comments:

  1. It would appear to me based on Bengahzi that our administration might just be leaning the same way

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  2. Who cares as long as we still get our Obamaphones, Obamahouse, Obamacash, and Obamafood on the 1st of every month.
    (Sarc)

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  3. In honor of our 44th President's 2d inaugural:

    With Fannies high, Obama's marching minions
    Go prancing down America's main drag.
    It's time to pack up all your un-PeeCee opinions,
    Whether in speech, on airwaves, or in mag.
    It's time to pack up all your un-PeeCee opinions,
    Whether in speech, on airwaves, or in mag.

    The media, subservient and ga-ga,
    Care not that Geitner cheats the IRS.
    Chicago pol's tale has become a sacred saga,
    "Messiah's come!" They loudly doth profess.
    Chicago pol's tale has become a sacred saga,
    "Messiah's come!" They loudly doth profess.

    His entourage is full of Maoists, Truthers,
    Alinsky fans, and commies like Van Jones.
    No Colbert dares to stand up as a comic spoofer--
    Such things are now deeply forbidden zones.
    No Colbert dares to stand up as a comic spoofer--
    Such things are now deeply forbidden zones.

    You're in the way if you're not with the program!
    It's criminal to disagree, demurr--
    No matter if his plans will bankrupt the whole country,
    You must roll over, play dead, wag and purr!
    No matter if his plans will bankrupt the whole country,
    You must roll over, play dead, wag and purr!

    Next thing, our youth will join in brown battalions
    To sing and chant our fearless leader's name.
    And prance along like well-trained gelded stallions,
    To once-free people's deep and lasting shame.
    And prance along like well-trained gelded stallions,
    To once-free people's deep and lasting shame.

    Our fearless leader--he would never fib ya'--
    Has promised no more Middle Eastern fights,
    Please don't remind us that he's bombed Yemen and Libya
    To let Al-Qaida followers have rights.
    Please don't remind us that he's bombed Yemen and Libya
    To let Al-Qaida followers have rights.
    Re our great prex, it's wrong to get too curious
    And ask about such things as growing debt,
    Or of the operation that's called Fast and Furious,
    Or of so many promises unmet.
    (repeat two last lines)

    For those who want no abortion or gay marriage,
    The First Amendment no longer applies.
    Let's run them over with the law's swift, forceful carriage,
    And hope they never, never more arise.
    (repeat last two lines).

    With Fannies high, Obama's marching minions
    Go prancing down America's main drag.
    It's time to pack up all your un-PeeCee opinions,
    Whether in speech, on airwaves, or in mag.
    It's time to pack up all your un-PeeCee opinions,
    Whether in speech, on airwaves, or in mag.

    (To be sing to the tune of the Horst Wessellied--no apologies to Horst Wessel).

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kepha, nicely done, that fine sonnet upon a husseinous time. I especially like the touch of "with our Fannies high", very subtle, methinks. Very nice! Always nice to see your comments, too.

      Jack

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  4. 1. The Algerians had two priorities: save the NG refinery and kill the bad actors.
    2. Was not a botched hostage rescue attempt.
    3. Do not think the Algerian authorities were averse to rescuing hostages. Just think they would not allow concern for the hostages to interfere with their priorities.
    4. Adopting US or European values will interfere with the maintenance of good order in a place like Algeria.
    5. Everyone we've bribed or bullied into doing so has regretted it.
    V/R JWest

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    Replies
    1. 4. just how many islamic jihad hostage events have EU and the USA prevailed in on their mainlands?
      mikeNZ

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    2. MikeNZ, I wish EU, USA, Aus & NZ, pick those "Terrorist" hard-core Islamist who have double faces (One side ugly, one outside nice when they seek to you) been packed them strip their citizenship and send them home without mercy at all.

      Forget Human rights and all this sick arguments.
      Example, Abu Hamza Almasray, UK, Egyptian
      Abut Qudata, UK, Jordanian
      Ahed Zawie, NZ, Algerian
      Millions of tax payer money spent on their case with court case with these stupid sick , ba***

      Delete
  5. Not all the hostages were killed. Keep reading.

    They spared all the muslims and killed all the Christians.

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  6. By the way, if the hostages were killed by the captors during the killing of the captors by the Algerians ... good for the Algerians.

    When we start doing the same thing, we'll stop seeing many of these hostage situations. Kill them all, without mercy.

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    Replies
    1. the israeli doctrine.
      kill all the terrs.
      save as many of the hostages as possible.
      mikenz

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  7. First allow me to extended a "seconded" to the above observations viz the Algerians two priorities.

    I would beg a clarification however Diplomad Sir specifically pertaining to Spetznaz' handling of the Dubrovka.

    That op had all the possibilities of actually rescuing the hostages alive. There was however a lack of coordination with the medical responders coupled with ignorance on how to handle the hostages once they were cleared from the building.

    In a nutshell, the victims were alive (if thoroughly comatose) when they were carried from the building where they were dumped on their backs directly onto the outside sidewalks.

    True - some number of the unfortunates sustained gunshots - whether inflicted by their rescuers or the terrorists is unknown. Spetznaz operators are pretty good though. Maybe a little bit - okay maybe alot - "mission focused."

    But the fact is; most of the hostages died of respiratory failure. Or aspirating vomit.

    For what it's worth - I can recall Reagan giving us, "We did not trade arms for hostages" ... and then sometime later coming back to explain [paraphrased] "Well actually..."

    I wholeheartedly agree that our current policies are bizarre and wrongheaded. But truly, what is it that is said, something along the lines of, 'success has us as parents while screw-ups are the other peoples'?

    And generally speaking, whatever the tactics in snake-pit Africa, Americans aren't likely to be impressed.

    Arkie



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  8. (Jack?

    Just in case you also check in and notice it's gone again - my guess is... recent events re GoV were not a fluke:

    http://billscomments.blogspot.com/

    Arkie)

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    1. Hi Arkie, interesting, very. I'm just lurking today, nothing to add at this time. But I saw your call, Arkie. Could be a minion of the GoV who takes offense, or a minion of Gmail, which among many reasons, all small, but add up to big, I don't trust Gmail, and definitely do not want it to grow. You know, something about absolute power corrupts, kinda like hussein? Jack

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    2. Here's a bit more: http://ibloga.blogspot.com/2013/01/blogger-shuts-down-gates-of-vienna-blog.html

      http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2013/01/gates-of-vienna-removed-from-blogger.html

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjordman

      http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/gates-of-vienna-blog-banned-to-enforce-open-mindedness-t10545.html

      Some info here, it looks like islamics behind it, most likely, 'course that would be our regime now, wouldn't it, if the screenshot is true, on people's cube, or islamics hacked in or some other rot in Denmark is going on.

      Jack

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    3. Whoopsie. Just discovered I had missunderstood, GoV, as Government, which is to me somewhat islamic, these days, more and less. GoVienna has been great, looking forward to its re-emergence with an intelligent sourcing, not the untrustworthy googlemaniacs of anti freedom, and monitoring of eveyone's profile.
      Jack

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    4. Just so you know Jack, I'm reticent to directly point toward that entity on blogger anyway - algorithms and IP pingbacks. (Why I don't embed direct links either - incidentally, a search for that I pasted above will take you where Baron and Dymphna email).

      I'm figuring 'Gates' will soon re-appear via WordPress.

      Arkie

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    5. Arkie, good advice, and likely so on Wordpress. I often use https://www.startpage.com/, when I feel tired of the Gm people tracking my searches. Never have any special reason, other than being sick of being under the thumb of Gm people, and having no trust of them, nor the current regime, and I mean benefits, policies, security of our nation, etc.

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    6. I too use startpage at home. Save good links on my, er, "work computer network" to flash for reference. Ssh, I'm not FS but I used to serve more or less active with the

      Delete
  9. I can see that Americans citizens will not be protected by their government abroad OR at home. Do not EVER surrender your firearms.

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    1. Not to be either disagreeing nor disagreeable but it really depends on where American citizens are and under what circumstances.

      Fr'instance, there once was a Captain of a Maersk ship off Somalia. The full force of the United States Navy was applied.

      Arkie

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  10. Algeria and Morocco are next on the list in Africa. They know from experience (especially Algeria) what AQ boys will do and they are not going to roll over. It's going to get down and dirty. The Europeans better think twice about pooh poohing them, for they will do the same when the time comes and it's coming for them.

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  11. British ex-Ambassador Crawford, posting at Blogoir, had similar points to make about the differences between hostage-rescue and hostage-taker elimination operations: http://www.charlescrawford.biz/blog/negotiating-with-terrorists

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    Replies
    1. Thanks for the link. He's a keeper.

      Delete
  12. Dip:

    Were you in the service when Kissinger told us we would not be bargaining chips for terrorists? It seemed cold-hearted, but it made perfect sense. Jimmah Carter was a hostage to the Iranians, and Kissinger let us know that would not be repeated. Then we discovered that was a lie. But I suppose it's a good policy until the lie is discovered. It was my job to tell the press the USG would not make concessions to the MRTA when four of my colleagues were inside the Japanese embassy. The policy might have worked: all four were released within 48 hours.

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  13. I don't have any of the inside dope that you people obviously have. I can tell you however, that I have been a reader of Gates of Vienna for several years. What is going on?
    Who and why have they been blocked?
    Please, all those that know more than me, let me know what is going on.
    I have been coresponding with the Baron and D for many years.

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    1. No problem, Babs. I just noticed the latest news feed for GoV. over temporarily on Vlad at:

      http://vladtepesblog.com/?p=58599

      The message is in a day or two all will be restored, but for now go to vladtepesblog to catch Baron and D.. and see his message. I guess since they are cooperative with each other, vlad is helping out for a couple days, until GoV. is back up.

      Jack

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    2. Also, Babs, see this resource on the matter that arkie gave above: http://billscomments.blogspot.com/

      and realize that the large gmail company has many negatives in my opinion, and does not abide by intelligent adhearance of Amendment 1. So there likely was a rush of islamics complaining to gmail And islam has never ever been a religion, unless you call the anti god a religious figure, with murder its command.

      See Ali Sina here for much more on that in one place and a free downloadable book on the internet, which I would download while it is available, rich in resources, I did, and Ali gives permission to do so, in the site, never forget we are simply at war with those people whom Ali left:

      http://www.islamreform.net/new-page-151.htm

      Jack

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    3. Jack,
      Your link to ali is just sickening.

      Did your Bible have things what US heroes done around the world?

      Abu Graib what you think is it Bible teaching or something like "Bad Apple"?Jack,
      Your link to ali is just sickening.

      Did your Bible have things what US heroes done around the world?

      Abu Graib what you think is it Bible teaching or something like "Bad Apple"?

      You should differentiate between culture& customs from Islam & Quran.
      Wish u well


      You should diffrencaite btweem culture and customs and Islam & Quran.
      Wish u well

      Delete
    4. For Anonymous unknown islamic defender attempter, some limited comments. I could very well get into a discussion in which you lose, but that is not the purpose of this forum/blog. Nor is it either my or your blog. And frankly, I’m interested in hearing all that Diplomad has to say, as well as many commentators. That is up to Diplomad, and all I did was give a technical reference, and a recommendation, which you may like or dislike. And that was to be the end of it.

      But you have been instructive as a member of an opponent, in your attitude and behavior. You are clearly suffering from a fairly famous condition of islam, "cognitive dissonance." Yes, you are quite right, it is truly a sick system of behaviors and beliefs, straight from 632CE, with a well-known written "trilogy" of reinforcing manuals and texts, to make sure it is understood for what it is. Read 'em all, and then decide if you can stand it. Ultimately, you will have to. And then you will decide how big a deception you have had committed against you, yourself, by this trilogy, and your associates.

      Goodness comes from many genuine honest belief systems, including Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and a few others, even including at least some of those who, for a time, believe in no supreme being, atheists. The Bible, and other good books, is not mine, it is for you and whomever wishes to partake.

      Remember, when you look at a horse, you can look at either end, or all of it, you might wake up one day if you’re lucky, and discover there is far more to learn, than you speak of.

      No one of mental, social stability and reality holds up nazis, thuggees, mafia as groups to be emulated, no normal social good minded individuals do so. Those criminal groups had overlapping objectives in common with only a few others, including islam. The nazis manipulated overwhelming racial and religious hatred for cohesiveness, the thuggees, and mafia used greed and togetherness, and some hatred, for cohesiveness. Islam uses both and much more including sick sex, all of well-defined anti-social and criminal nature. Limitless sociopathy, and psychopathy run rampant in that neighborhood of life!

      I will answer no more of your “commentary” anonymous islamic “defender”, on this forum. For me, it ends here.

      Jack

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    5. Jack?

      Don't allow your long-johns to get twisted. Matter of fact, don't give it no never-mind. Spook86 can (generally) be located here: Lat: 37.23 Lon: -93.38, and me (generally): Lat: 36.37 Lon: -92.47.

      You might Jack wonder at such stuff but the explanation is actually fairly straightforward.

      South of Spook, west of me there's corporate Wal-Mart, Tyson's and J.B. Hunt. All welcome operators. Not so whoopie benefits but getting shot is more likely being employed by an oil company.

      Arkie

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  14. Not so different from Obama's 'kill them all and let God sort them out' drone policy.

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    1. I'd qualify that somewhat. We had SF back in '05 training up local forces in Mali (removed '08) - we've operated nothing other than Predators in the general region. Reapers however did (for a shortish time) fly the friendly skies of Libya.

      The salient point to bear in mind; which came first, the Predator or the Reaper?

      Arkie

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    2. My point is Obama's hypocrisy. Personally, I don't mind the drone strikes. War is supposed to be hell on earth. If it isn't we get these never ending, no win debacles.

      Delete
    3. Recommendation[s]?

      Arkie

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  15. the bizarre US and European policies in North Africa.
    DiploMad, are you on porously you ignored Iraq?
    What you done to those terrorist in Iraq? You bring them'on? isn’t?

    Let listen to this honest man.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc7SvpG7dto
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cltOWIU8rg4

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    1. I realize Dip there's some Biblicals overlooking my shoulders (not that we disagee on the fundamentals) but if you get a reply to "Huh?" I'd really appreciate it's being Morsed.

      (I've been advised I'm turribull at HR.)

      Arkie

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    2. Hmmm not sure what you mean by Biblicals :-) but since the above youtube's were in arabic who the heck knows.

      Delete
    3. Fret not, fear not, all, that anon. commentator is what other blogs elsewhere and books refer to as an islamic "troll", quite practiced in taqiyya and kitman. Worse, brainwashed into zombie style believing such BS. He doth attempt to proselytize.

      They try to find soft spots of kafir people unknowledgeable in the depths of depravity of the practices of said group or gang, (by lies, witholding and deception), and attempt to improve their typical lack of language skills and try to find a way to argue the validity of evil, which is in the fundamentals of the trilogy, the mere but heinous simple facts, utterly impossible to prove validity of, provided one uses the final, medina version of the koran, along with the even more all-important hadiths, and sira.

      The earlier meccan version was abrogated forever, (by hisself), in the amount of 62% of all peaceable chapters (sura) by the final medina version, including the all important core of sura(chapter) 5 and 9 (of the sword)

      By his character, insinuations, demeanor, and lack of language skills, I never bothered to look at his references, as they would be a total waste of time. Automatically, I recognized he, she or it for what it was.

      He was most probably the one who made the funny remark ("sick, sick I say") about my referenced URL. They always try to play the innocent or shocked, "simply shocked I say", victim, too. The opposite of the truth, always.

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    4. “People get the point, which is that Americans are incredibly religious, but they don’t know anything about religion,” Prothero says. “They get it because that describes themselves. Another part of it is that people get that the stakes are high, especially because of Iraq and the war on terror.”
      Religious Winner

      Stephen Prothero says Americans are very religious, but most know little about religion
      FROM COMMONWEALTH | BY TAYLOR MCNEIL

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  16. Diplomad,

    I keep thinking of hostages anywhere in the world now with OBama as President. At least when our children's attempted kidnapping by Bader Meinhof in Germany (1983) was thwarted, we knew clearly what our military service there was doing, had a clear and understanding foreign policy (thanks to Reagan), and knew that even if we did not consort or respond to kidnapper's requests, that our government then would move heaven and earth to TRY to succeed in trying to rescue our children. And we knew that if our teams did not succeed in saving our children, the teams would move heaven and earth to bring kidnappers to justice later.
    Now, we have considerable confusion in current policy, we know just how little our Prez feels about us as Americans, and thinks we deserve anything dished at us, for any deeds done in the past. Oh, and did I forget he has a lock hold on the media and we can rest assured salient details won't ever reach the public in general!
    We are in a hell of a mess and we will stay there. But I still say this feels like 1933. I don't know where we are headed as a country but it sure doesn't feel good, especially since we have a son serving.
    But, as I say my prayers I ask God to bless and protect....and pray He will.
    Blessings,
    East Texas Rancher

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    Replies
    1. Not particularly enjoyingmost here - be that as it may:

      First paragraph, ending sentence: " And we knew that if our teams did not succeed in saving our children, the teams would move heaven and earth to bring kidnappers to justice later."

      Yeah I know it might seem cold blooded - but that sentiment is precisely the point.

      I've only a single son serving so "perhaps" I don't understand. My two Grandsons perhaps are superfluous.

      Arkie

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    2. ETR, in my hope this will offer some understanding of the difference between'83 and nowadays, and the mutually shared feeling of '33, which I have likewise used as a reference to where we are in the timeline, on other blogs, I offer this simple article, from an excellent source of early news, that may lay out a perspective that explains for you where we are as a nation. Perhaps pay special attention to the remarks of Clare Lopez, in the article. It is here:

      http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/meet-the-first-muslim-president/

      Actually, it is a privilage to meet you, ETR, and I do wish and pray that your son returns home safely, for even greater successes in his future.

      ETR, you may know, there are many fine sources of news, that offer items that most often will never be covered on even Fox, let alone hussein's pocketed MSM. I'm speaking of legitimate news, not conspiracy theorists types. Frankly, some of the sources the producers of Fox use, for their selections for broadcasting. These sources involve global news and national news coverage, and give much better understanding the total perspective in the globe, and all do matter to Americans.

      I have been curious how much Diplomad knew or suspected through the scuttlebutt line in the service and allied services, about what was to come, when he decided to pull the switch on his career.

      Jack

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    3. Arkie, in the Western world, and America, so far, you know that most good peoples know that all relatives count, no matter in service, or never served, nor matters how close. Grandson relations and cousins, and strangers count. And in those earlier referred to days and times, there were values to be depended upon of those serving, or non-serving individuals put in harms ways. These were the values we understood that we could count upon. The article I quoted shows the nature of the confusion of the times today, consorting with the enemy, as it were that our regime is up to, contrasted to back then.

      Your two Grandsons not superfluous, to any of us, are fully as crucial as all, no matter what, to Americans who are historic Patriots. True ordinary Americans count to Americans.

      What is not dependable is the importance of Americans lives and well being under this confused and deviating and conflicting values regime, comprized of tearing factons pulling both very un-Patriotically, and Patriotically.

      History and direction in this regime is deeply twisted.


      Jack

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    4. We were ill served:

      http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/11/05/ann_coulter_predicts_lower_turnout_for_obama_due_to_bradley_effect.html

      "The Bradley Effect" as the FOX people [with the exception of Megyn Fox] presented for our benefit was as we now know...

      And now I admire Megyn. If only because she said to Karl Rove, "Is this just math you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better?"

      Of course now that FOX has renewed Karl Rove...

      Arkie

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    5. "Bader Meinhof" that's a name from a long time ago in my past. Like Ayers and Dorn they never seem to depart.

      Delete
    6. Thing is James, most of us don't need reminding of any so & so.

      Most of us've heard, Black September, the Red Brigades, PLO, and whatever other whatnot alphabets - but we're not at the Munich Olympics - at least currently anyway.

      I figger I'm pretty much good for at least 30 days - & I'm figuring to be the least of any of my friends problems.

      Now. I've heard of a feller named 'Ayers' but I'm figuring he'll be no more a problem come 2016.

      But that listing of 'Dorn' ? Isn't that a Klingon type Star-Trek kinda feller?

      & that's the main thing. We Conservatives are always getting side-tracked by nonsense (and/or our Tea Party co-opted by the DC panjandrums - or FOXTV)...

      Be locally involved. Do not allow your local Tea Party to be co-opted by the DC elites (if an example is needed look back to 2012's Missouri Senate race). Be of Faith.

      Arkie

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    7. Arkie, It was a rememberance of a personal nature, I did not intend it to be otherwise, my apologies.
      James

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    8. FYI, for those interested in Gates of Vienna's struggles, recently, they are back up probably solidly at:

      http://gatesofvienna.net/

      Helping, in their style, in the fight to expose truth against those who would conquer Europe.

      They have left Blogger, at last, for more stable grounds. May they have smooth sailing, with favorable winds at their backs.

      Jack

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    9. No need apologize to me James. You're reading (commenting) here. Diplomad's site.

      We most of us have our personal remembrances. But... and I can only seek to be historically, intellectually, honest and there it is to mine ownself. (But then I've shrap in my lower parts, and not from "official places" but I thank VA which does me personally, excellent).

      James? The way I figure it is, if you're here likely it was due to a recommendation - and anybody who'd recommend this site to a feller, doesn't owe anybody anything - certainly no apologies.

      I'm generally of the opinion Diplomad has put up a forum where intellectually honest debate on stuff can take place. So far as I've been reading it's been small stuff [big issues] - but that's just me; if a low info person comes on this site I personally will be respectful. I will not be demeaning nor will I 'flame' - I've noticed stuff here.

      I expect if I violate protocol on Diplomad's site I'll be the person "adjusting" - but there I'm kinda/sorta used to this stuff so if there's any refereeing to take place I figure Diplomad will either call me/us down or delete comments.

      I'm pretty much a short-timer having only been offering comments post-election. I hope to be a productive, engaging DipShit.

      Arkie



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  17. Dear Mr. DiploMad,

    As one of your 6 (or is it 8?) readers, I appreciate your reflections on the past and how they subtly reflect on the now, but I am glad to have you back in the present. It is hard to get the truth anywhere. It seems that the Islamists are running roughshod all over Northern Africa and our King barry is too busy stuffing the powders up his nose to have any concern over it.

    sb

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  18. "Bader Meinhof" that's a name from a long time ago in my past. Like Ayers and Dorn they never seem to depart.

    Same gang that got into a bit of trouble in Wiesbaden in 72 or 73. A gasthaus I believe.
    3 wounded 2 dead IIRC.

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  19. DiploMad,
    As always, clearly you been very concerned about the Value of Life, but when it comes to others you lose it without any degree of respect or value?
    Very sad......

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