Mr. Vladimir "I Don't Need No Stinkin' Shirt" Putin has been playing games with our ineffectual President and our hopelessly hapless Secretary of State, John "Xmas in Cambodia" Kerry.
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| Reeling in the американцы |
The treasonous Edward Snowden has been granted--Surprise!--a "temporary asylum" in Russia with the final decision to come in about a year. It seems that the Russian government office which handles requests for political asylum is just so backed up, so busy that it can't get to Snowden right away. He has to wait in line. Russia does not give preference to those who enter the country illegally.
And, yes, I do think Snowden is a traitor. Whatever is wrong with the NSA, and there is a lot, his going to the decidedly undemocratic Chinese and Russians with--apparently--critical information that will hurt our legitimate collection efforts, and those of our allies, is not the way to stand up for individual rights and freedom. Why not praise Lord Haw-Haw or Ezra Pound, too, while we are it?
He and Manning are weasels, not heroes, who should never have had the jobs they held. I realize, of course, that with so many other "phony" scandals to investigate, any request for Congress to look into how these weasels got their jobs will fall very far down the list of priorities.
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| Snowden adjusting to his new life in a new paradise. |
WLA
I can't fully get my arms around the Snowden/Manning sell outs coming so close to one another. Maybe there are more like them in the wings, I just don't know. But there seems to be a cottage industry unfolding with people like this. Certainly unlike the Cold War days when there was clarity--and punishment--read Rosenbergs. Risk of all out war seems to be giving way to risk of perceived state secrecy and maybe that's true. The consequences of major powers war is understandable but the consequences of secrecy are unknown and left to the interpretation and even imagination.
ReplyDeleteThen again, it may be nothing more than Obama's open mic gaffe when he told Medvedev to let Vladimir know that after the election he would have more leeway. What ever, it is allowing our detractors to use the Snowden affair to portray America as a place to seek asylum from---not in.
This just in on the wire: In an unexpected development a quite rejuvenated Chairman Mao is swimming up the Volga to meet President Putin. Secretary Kerry swears he never saw Mao at Christmas or it would have been seared in his memory. Ex-Secretary Clinton when quizzed by reporters exclaimed "what difference does it make, there a billion more where he came from" then was last seen asking Huma to step outside on the 50th floor balcony for a quick word. President Obama refused to answer questions on another phoney scandal while nothing was being done to combat McDonald's pitiless oppression of American working people.
ReplyDeleteBack to you Diplomad!
Chairman Mao is no doubt leading a rousing chorus of the "Volga Boatmen" to stir the old good comrade blood. How I miss the old days!
DeleteThe Great Helmsman with the Autocratic Angler, Yes!
Delete:))
DeleteAmerica has seen traitors come and go who have done potentially lethal damage to US national security. Alrich Ames and the father/son group who gave our sub's encryption codes to the Soviets come to mind. What is separating Snowden from these guys are thumb drives. A handful of them can contain more sensitive national security data than those other guys could deliver in a lifetime of spying. The other thing is the voracious growth of the US national security state and its gluttony for computer savvy new hires. That has given us Snowden and probably dozens more just like him without any knowledge by the USG. For christsakes any system administrator has complete access to all the data on the disk drives of the servers he administers. I'm sure more than a few of those people know the value of the data they possess and I'm sure our foreign enemies have made a point to identify who these people are and lure them into spying for cash.
ReplyDeleteAnyone think the USG has now put into place effective barriers to prevent the next Snowden from downloading highly secret data?
Anyone believe the Russians will give up Snowden? Doing so will destroy any thoughts by the other Snowdens out there of doing business with the Russians. Snowden stays in mother Russia unless he does something stupid.
ReplyDeleteThere's an 'online culture' loosely formed around high geek/nerd densities and organizations like the EFF that are unintentionally working against the interest of the US.
ReplyDeleteThe mistaken perceptions stem from intrinsic problems within the ideologies at the very foundations of these organizations. This subculture is infected in a way that's pretty much the ideological version of sepsis. They put themselves above the Constitution and the Bible, leaving no guidance for right or wrong.
In the end, guys like Snowden/Manning most likely spent most of their lives on IRC listening to the adulations for treason received by various miscreants who ply their trades in the guise of pursuing their little electronic utopia (myopia, more like).
Go to any silicon valley meeting place that aggregates a significant number of self-described geeks/nerds, and you'll see an astoundingly large portion of the people partake in this threat.
It's really as bad as Orwell proclaimed it, with all the changes in language and the redefinitions of principles.
"unintentionally working against the interest of the US"
DeleteThis tragically begs the question. The current interests/traditions of USG agencies do not equate to the interests of the nation as a whole. It does not require a very enlightened person to know that a surveillance state is not in the interest of a free people.
In an earlier post you say "If Snowden saw things that should not be, and he did not trust his agency's IG or other administration offices--understandable--there are Congressmen and staffers with the proper level of clearances to whom he could have turned..."
ReplyDeleteWho? I would be interested to know which Congressperson you feel has both the clearance level and a sufficient amount of political clout and interest to have given any of Snowden's concerns the time of day, much less brought them to the forefront of a national debate.
- Augustus
He could have gone to a number of them, e.g., Mike Rogers, even some on the Senate side. There are also many, many lawyers in DC who specialize in these sorts of cases. Snowden has been giving up a lot of stuff of use to the Russians and Chinese and potentially AQ; that is unforgivable.
DeleteYou seem to be jumping to some serious conclusions based on nothing more than allegations of Holder's DOJ, which is hardly the most reliable source these days.
DeleteUnderstand I am not necessarily trying to defend Snowden, but as far as I am aware, he doesn't appear to have actually given anything to the Russians or the Chinese. If he has, what is this vital "stuff" has he given that they didn't already know, and to whom, specifically, has he given it? And how has what he has given actually prejudiced the safety of the United States? What specifically did he take from the U.S. government and fail to return?
Thanks,
- Augustus
We don't know that's why I said "apparently." The fact that he fled to China and Russia, however, does not auger well for his claims to be some sort of civil rights crusader. Those governments care nothing about that; they want to know what technologies we have, what procedures we have, what we know about them, etc. The fact that they are treating him as they do, would be an indication that he has given them something of value. I, for one, believe Jonathan Pollard belongs in prison, and he passed info to Israel about what we knew about Syrian air defenses. This guy almost certainly has done something considerably more significant.
Delete"The fact that they are treating him as they do, would be an indication that he has given them something of value", yes and I doubt Snowden himself knows the true value of what he has. Putin is no fool and would not have done what he has without reason. Snowden is going to find out what a long debrief really entails and they will suck him dry then toss him away. For those of you who fall on the hero side I understand and sympathize, what his has exposed is dangerous to the Republic and must be rectified. What Snowden may have done is dangerous to the extreme.
DeleteI don't think Snowden has to give up anything in the way of intelligence in order to be of value to Putin.
DeletePutin is probably waiting for Obama to bow or kneel before him before turning over Snowden.
Of course, I don't know that Obama is smart enough to realize just how much Putin is humiliating him.
Anyone from the White House proclaiming just how evil Snowden is, is merely playing into the hands of Putin, because it increases the propaganda value of Russia offering asylum.
The people in the White House are not only stuck, they're also monumentally blind.
-Blake
Snowden a traitor? More so than our president?
ReplyDeleteSo, the weasel Snowden becomes a Siberian polecat.
ReplyDeleteNO ONE on earth is more a traitor to America than the usurper in the Office of the Presidency. I have never been more ashamed of our citizenry, electing this miscreant after four dreadful years of (non)leadership. The people who voted the first time around, I can kind of understand where they were coming from, and as a Christian who is called to praise God in all things, I was actually thanking God that such a foul person was foisted on us in order to wake up "the sleeping giant", and I think they have awakened. Unfortunately the losers in society, and the painfully uninformed, as well as the racists have NOT learned and were tempted to come out in droves by the powerful Obama election machine. THIS time around I was truly shocked and actually cried over my keyboard when the results came in. I no longer believe that the voting system in our republic is functioning as designed.
ReplyDeleteI was in Africa during the 2008 election (don't worry, I voted absentee) and was amazed at the African people who were so excited that one of "their people" was going to be President of the United States. They were SO proud! Some of those a little more politically astute were confounded by the circumstances, knowing enough about our electoral requirements that they could not understand how an African could become an American President. The acts of malfeasance in these few short years is absolutely astounding when looked at as a whole. I am appalled that the Congress has not taken any action against the man and his czars while they flout the Constitution at will. Absolutely disgusting and immoral, besides illegal.
As Mark Levin opines in his new book, we are engaged in useless lamentation over the situation instead of taking powerful action against it. Truer words were never spoken. I await a leader to pull together all of us who have truly run out of patience and DO something about the whole bloody mess.
I jokingly told my husband I was going to open a little business selling pitchforks and torches when we heard Obama was elected. Looks like it may be a fruitful idea.
Blessings to all true Americans and my pity to those who are pitifully anti-American, may you rot in the outer limits, with all love of course.
LibertyGrace'sGrandma
Nice comment, LGG. Especially like "may you rot in the outer limits, with all love of course." Nice touch!
DeleteI sure agree as well with the "Blessings to all true Americans and my pity to those who are pitifully anti-American,"
You may find my later comments of merit, I hope, below.
I really enjoy your comments and perspectives, refreshing and realistic observations as they tend to be, and religiously grounded. A breath of fresh air, from time to time.
Jack
The now the Obama administration's NSA commits espionage against American citizens in mass and in depth, and without any scintilla of probable cause, and when someone (Snowden in this case) reveals this then that person, according to the Obama administration, and apparently you, is guilty of ... ... ... espionage. It would be as if someone revealed that some officers in the local police department were dealing drugs and then the police department charged them with ... ... ... dealing drugs. What is needed is a way to curtail the anti-American, anti-patriotic, anti-Bill-of-Rights, anti-natural rights, and I might add almost totally, if not totally, ineffective against terrorists, NSA, America's version of East Germany's STASI and the Keystone Cops..As an American version of the East German Stasi, the N-Stasi-A is most excellent. As anything that protects our security it is all but if not utterly worthless.
ReplyDeleteThe vital question is not "Oh look, there's Putin!" or "Oh look, there's Snowden", but to what degree should the Bill of Rights be eviscerated and within America's own borders, such as we have of borders? I say it should not be at all and I am certain that to a man, the Founding Fathers would wholeheartedly concur. But I do want to thank the Founding Fathers for all the sacrifices they made however much they now seem to have been in vain.
With it's warrantless 24X7 spy programs the NSA is committing non-stop acts of war on the United States Constitution and hence the American nation and people and is maliciously and with forethought pre-judging all American citizens as guilty until never proven innocent, so it is really a criminal organization itself and every employee working for it is therefor a member of a criminal organization.
ReplyDeletePutin is going to keep Snowden as a stick to beat on Obama when he wants to. This is why he gave him a 1 year deal. It doesn't tie Putin to Snowden indefinitely, but it keeps him in hand for complete debriefing (the Russians may already know what Snowden has, but confirmation is important), available for propaganda uses and for sale back to Obama if necessary.
ReplyDelete"I can't fully get my arms around the Snowden/Manning sell outs coming so close to one another. Maybe there are more like them in the wings, I just don't know. But there seems to be a cottage industry unfolding with people like this."
ReplyDelete"The other thing is the voracious growth of the US national security state and its gluttony for computer savvy new hires."
There are 1.4 million people with "top secret" clearances. Suppose that the "mistake level" is one out of ten thousand (and I am certain it is far higher than that). You can do the math regarding the number of problems that might exist.
"There's an 'online culture' loosely formed around high geek/nerd densities and organizations like the EFF that are unintentionally working against the interest of the US."
I completely disagree with your characterization of the EFF. Please tell me which of these items are "working against the interest of the US." Maybe working against the U.S. government becoming a totalitarian state, but I assume most here want that.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/12/effs-2012-holiday-wish-list
"He could have gone to a number of them, e.g., Mike Rogers, even some on the Senate side."
Mike Rogers, the NSA butt-licker? BWA HA HA HA HA HA! Even Ron Wyden, who seems to have a good grasp of the issues (never thought I would find myself agreeing with him about anything) is completely impotent as far as correcting any of the problems.
"Snowden has been giving up a lot of stuff of use to the Russians and Chinese and potentially AQ; that is unforgivable."
You have no proof of that. The Guardian reporters have frequently mentioned that Snowden has limited what they can publish (and they have complied so far) due to concerns about whet he believes (reasonable people will differ on this, of course) would harm the United States.
You can call him misguided (or even a traitor, but that is a matter of perspective - George Washington was a traitor from the British viewpoint), but so far nothing he (nor his father) has said or done has made me doubt his sincerity. I believe he acted solely out of concern regarding what he encountered.
As for extradition, the U.S. seems rather hypocritical regarding extradition requests (as well as other treaty obligations), especially from nations other than their closest allies. There have been a number of legitimate high-profile extradition requests denied, apparently just to tweak the noses of the countries making the requests.
Things like this are outrageous.
https://medium.com/something-like-falling/2e7d13e54724
I would have told them to come back with a warrant (just to make them waste the two grand or whatever it costs, but obviously if they send three cars and six agents, they aren't really concerned about good stewardship of taxpayer money), and also (as WLA recently reminded us) told them I am not answering any questions ("here is the card for my attorneys - call them").
You quote... ummm... 'misleadingly' with regards to my post about the geek/nerd subversive movement. Many who orbit such groups are sorely misled, and in time, not watching our backs with these guys will leave us with a massive stab wound. A lot of the crap is simple retreads of Anarchism and communism, but it's extremely common and easily organized online. I'm pretty certain that's the world where Mannings and Snowdens come from.
DeleteEven Manning was outed after boasting to a relatively high profile member of that general community (he's pretty certainly not anymore). Was that the first time he'd boasted about it? Unlikely. There were probably many other such occurrences, none of which would have been brought to the attention of the authorities because... well..
There's an entire subculture which suborns and encourages this kind of behavior, that's why this is happening, and why it will happen with increased frequency in the future. This is a subculture made up of people who don't think for one moment before casting away all the sacrifices made by those who have come before us.
Just listen up the next time you hear a phrase like: "Information wants to be free." I hear this crap everywhere and almost unilaterally out of the mouths of ungrateful idiots.
These groups may not fully understand what they're doing or what they want, but what they actually want and are working towards is the dismantling of the US.
I would seriously hope that the CIA/NSA are the ultimate originators of events such as defcon and black hat. Our government should fear these people. They may wind up having some level of power, and in groups they show an extreme lack of judgment.
It seems that if Snowden really did act on principle and a willingness to suffer for his actions for the benefit of all, then his people could arrange his return to the US, unmolested by the Feds, and keep himself under protection of lawyers and media outlets until a forum for his case could be arraigned. Let the American public be his jury. I don't know how the mechanics of this would work, I will confess, but if he is acting in the national interest then lets find out instead of letting this issue with the NSA linger on the news unresolved while other scandals that people can understand are stonewalled.
ReplyDeleteEdward Snowden: Traitor Or Hero?
ReplyDeletehttp://personalliberty.com/2013/07/26/edward-snowden-traitor-or-hero/
From today, 8-3-13, a letter, that I believe frames actual reality re: the Snowden matter. I continue to not make a premature judgement, as I do suspect he may well be a hero, in fact, for OUR American Constitution, its wisdom, and Liberty. And here is specifically why:
"Mr. Snowden,
Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms (sic) way any intelligence agent, I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States Constitution.
Having served in the United States Senate for twelve years as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee and the Judiciary Committee, I think I have a good grounding to reach my conclusion.
I wish you well in your efforts to secure asylum and encourage you to persevere.
Kindly acknowledge this message, so that I will know it reached you.
Regards,
Gordon J. Humphrey
Former United States Senator
New Hampshire"
"later, in reply to Humphrey's letter, this further from Snowden....My intention, which I outlined when this began, is to inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which is done against them. I remain committed to that. Though reporters and officials may never believe it, I have not provided any information that would harm our people – agent or not – and I have no intention to do so.
Further, no intelligence service – not even our own – has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China)."
"Oh, and one more thing. When Greenwald contacted Humphrey, to confirm the authenticity of his original email, Humphrey expanded on what he wrote Snowden:
"I object to the monumentally disproportionate campaign being waged by the U.S. Government against Edward Snowden, while no effort is being made to identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States and the rights of millions of unsuspecting citizens."
Before I can imagine to condemn Snowden, given the extensive lying in and by this regime, and the traitorous acts of this regime, I require incontrovertable and extensive hard evidence of Snowden's exact, precise, and detailed harm to America, not any that may or is manufactured by this regime, and its henchmen of the MSM!
So far, on Fox I consider many commentators even today, to be making fools of themselves sputtering on about all the damage Snowden has done. I believe only one plot was actually foiled, period, by the data mining, and very much of this and related stories need full and maximum exposure. A world of transparency is in dire need of being exposed, regarding the actions of this regime, and its undocumented usurper, his arrogance.
Based on this letter and more, I continue to lean on the side of hero, and perhaps not a world apart from the heroism of our Founding Father's who turned their backs on and became traitors of and to the British Empire, and their own King! Who actually knows, yet? And this too, is not phony!
Jack
He kicks himself in the balls right here:
Delete"Further, no intelligence service – not even our own – has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China)."
Show's his utter lack of humility. *He* feels like he has the right and judgment to take *our* secrets to the russians and chinese because *he thinks* he knows how to secure secrets.
Does he?
Evidently he's willing to risk some mammoth amount of our intelligence data based on his false sense of competence. No, that's not it. He's simply seeking glory, and his false confidence is merely a rationalization for his actions. ("I'm not a traitor, I encrypted everything with AES... so it's safe... and now everybody's going to know how awesome I am.")
Sorry, nobody elected or appointed him to divulge our secrets. Nobody elected him to determine what level of security/encryption is essential to our secrets either.
I have no doubt that this guy thinks that he is akin to our founding fathers, turning on an unjust system. The reality of the situation is that *they* were right and *this* guy is quite wrong.
Of course, our founding fathers were almost entirely well accomplished people before they venture to rebel against the crown. Yet Snowden is a disgrace to people who received their GED.
Snowden simply doesn't know whether what he stole is safe. He's simply relying on misinformation provided by others. That's what people do when their agenda is about themselves and only themselves.
And to nail my case down a bit more, the One, who is causing harm and death to both our own warriors and our treasured allies, from today: http://weaselzippers.us/2013/08/03/us-leaks-on-alleged-syria-strikes-could-be-attempt-to-harm-israeli-interests/
ReplyDeleteAnd the champion unmitigated disaster LEAKER-IN-CHIEF, and regime, is responsible for deaths from "Fast and Furious", through Seal Team 6, and Benghazi, to name just a few, plus many others.
So as Snowden goes, "What difference, at this point, does it make?"
So far as I'm concerned, Snowden hasn't even gotten off the block, and I doubt he ever will, so far as causing deaths of warriors, and innocents.
Jack
Bravo, Jack. Well said.
DeleteIndeed, well summarized.
DeleteSnowdem MAY have harmed US interests (we do not know), the African king HAS definitely harmed US citizens, service personnel, US interests and betrayed allies on so many occasions there can be no doubt he is a traitor.
For his failure to uphold the constitution he should be impeached, though my preference would be see him tried as a traitor, and summarily executed if found guilty.
http://weaselzippers.us/2013/08/03/intel-community-worried-obama-admin-may-have-disclosed-too-much-about-current-al-qaeda-threat/
ReplyDeleteIntel Community Worried Obama Admin May Have Disclosed Too Much About Current Al-Qaeda Threat
[snip]
Intelligence officials are dismayed that the administration provided so much detail on what prompted the closings, and that the disclosures could work against obtaining new information. Militants are now likely searching for the sources of the information to both the U.S. and Yemeni officials, and almost certainly will kill anyone they suspect of working with Western intelligence.
“There simply are not that many who would know about the attacks,” says one former high-ranking U.S. intelligence officer, “so it won’t be hard for al Qaeda leaders to pin-point the sources of information. Once that happens, they certainly won’t be working with us anymore.”
jmb
On the one side, I have listened to Snowden's interviews with the UK Grauniad. On the other side, I have observed Barry Soetero's literal bowing to foreign potentates with hostile intent, and his many other actions which are entirely consistent with those humiliating bows.
ReplyDeleteLike all the rest of us, I don't have all the facts. But the reasonable interpretation of the facts in evidence is that Soetero's regime is a Clear & Present Danger to these United States, and that Snowden's aim was to be a whistleblower.
Of course, the lapdog government media like the New York Times don't report on Soetero's unprecedented legal actions against whistleblowers -- legal action taken by an Attorney General who has been ruled by Congress to be in contempt. Traitors? We taxpayers have been paying for bushels of them!
No, Diplomad -- on this issue you are wrong, very wrong. Until we get honesty & openness from the Soetero Regime, from the government-controlled media, and from the ineffective Congress, we have to assume that Snowden is a noble whistleblower calling out the corrupt & despotic Soetero regime.